Again in January, Tango Gameworks and Bethesda launched certainly one of my favourite video games of all time with Hello-Fi Rush. As somebody who adores character motion and rhythm video games, mixing each collectively appeared like an ideal match for my style, however Hello-Fi Rush did a lot extra. I’ve performed many instances already throughout Steam Deck and Xbox Sequence X, and I’ve had the pleasure of chatting with John Johanas of Tango Gameworks about Hello-Fi Rush, his profession, a possible sequel, Korsica content material, utilizing licensed music in video games nicely, the video games he loved not too long ago, and much more. With Hello-Fi Rush’s one 12 months anniversary subsequent month, I knew it was time to speak with John. This interview was performed on a video name for essentially the most half. It was then transcribed and edited for brevity within the case of some parts.
TouchArcade (TA): For many who don’t know you, inform us just a little bit about your self, and your function at Tango Gameworks.
John Johanas (JJ): My identify is John Johanas. I’m at the moment a sport director, artistic director, no matter you need to name it. We simply name it director right here at Tango Gameworks, and I joined the corporate after they began round 13 years in the past. I’ve been there because the very starting, engaged on principally each challenge. I had no expertise engaged on video games earlier than this. The primary sport I ever labored on was The Evil Inside, then I used to be accountable for the DLCs and the sequel, after which after that, I began engaged on what grew to become Hello-Fi Rush.
TA: So how did you get into Tango Gameworks then, because you talked about you didn’t have any expertise earlier than?
JJ: Yeah, I actually simply utilized on the web site, and was very open about the truth that I had no expertise, however was simply very involved in making, this was 13 years in the past, just like the PlayStation 3 period. There was this bizarre type of time in Japanese sport dev stuff the place lots of people have been saying, you realize, these video games are too Japanese for Western audiences. It was this type of operating narrative. And I used to be like that’s not, I don’t assume that’s the case. And whether it is, possibly it’s a localization factor, possibly it’s simply the best way some options of the sport are applied that aren’t as consumer pleasant. In order that was type of like my pitch. Primarily once I was speaking about getting concerned, I used to be like I don’t like this notion as a result of I grew up enjoying Japanese video games. I used to be dwelling in Japan on the time, and I used to be like I’d simply love to assist out for no matter we’re making to make it so that isn’t the case for what the studio decides to make. That’s simply based mostly on me being a fan of video games and enjoying video games my entire life.
TA: Was there any particular sport you performed at the moment which instructed you in your head that that you must get into the business now?
JJ: There wasn’t a particular sport that’s like, wow, now I must get into the business. Truly it was just a little bit circumstantial. I truly didn’t even plan on this being like a profession alternative in any respect. I wasn’t pursuing it. I used to be planning to virtually go on to increased training, like graduate faculty, and I simply stumbled upon this web site and was like, hey, you realize what, why don’t I simply throw a resume there and see what occurs, you realize?
Worst case, I’ve an incredible story to inform a pair years later that both I utilized to this studio and didn’t get a job, or I utilized to this studio after which obtained fired instantly as a result of I’ve no expertise, but it surely’ll be a very good story to inform.
I feel on the time once I was dwelling in Japan, I used to be simply enjoying. I feel I simply obtained a PS3 late into when it was out and I used to be simply going by way of the catalog of video games, and I used to be clearly very impressed by trendy gaming at that time. Simply how, how difficult and in addition how the constancy and the scope of them was getting so large. It was very attention-grabbing to me, however I clearly didn’t know the way they have been made. That was a thriller.
TA: Because you talked about you joined from the beginning at Tango Gameworks, how was it working with Shinji Mikami?
JJ: It was nice as a result of he’s an individual who may be very fingers on with growth. You generally hear about administrators or challenge leads, they’re in like an workplace, and it’s very high down, they usually give orders, and also you simply do issues. He’s very proactive in letting individuals become involved in having possession over the issues that they have been doing, even when they made errors. After which he would know to leap in and assist out, or type of allow you to fail, and see your individual errors and issues like that.
You could possibly consider it virtually like a mentorship in a means. You’re studying a commerce by type of watching and doing. It wasn’t like lessons that I used to be taking to study his methodology or one thing like that. It was simply understanding that numerous the sport growth is chaotic. It’s studying whereas doing, it’s making an attempt, failing. And you bought to see that not from an individual within the workplace, however from somebody who’s actually sitting subsequent to you who’s a director of a challenge, however nonetheless makes these errors and finds an answer and issues like that.
In a great way it type of took away the form of mystique of this like an invincible director who is aware of every part. It virtually humanized the expertise.Once I work on my tasks, I ensure that to maintain that custom, or these classes I realized alive by ensuring that there’s possession, and ensuring that you just’re concerned in any respect ranges. It doesn’t really feel high down and simply form of handing out orders.
TA: You labored on The Evil Inside, then you definitely directed the DLCs, and then you definitely did The Evil Inside 2 additionally in that very same place. Then got here Hello-Fi Rush. Out of those tasks, which was essentially the most enjoyable to date, growth smart.
JJ: I might in all probability say Hello-Fi Rush barely truly exceeds the DLCs from the primary sport for some purpose. The DLCs have been type of enjoyable otherwise as a result of that they had a brief growth time, however we obtained to strive one thing new, and attempt to do one thing totally different. We failed lots and did numerous stuff rapidly, however we additionally type of did what we wished to do. So it was enjoyable to have like, I virtually felt like operating, like a Dash, in that sense, and to get see it achieved and to get on the market in a short time.
Hifi Rush typically was a really, very enjoyable sport to make due to simply how ridiculous it’s, and the way enjoyable it’s to play. But it surely was a really lengthy course of of creating it, and it was very, very difficult to make. So generally there have been numerous smaller particulars that have been just a little bit overwhelming at instances. However on the finish of the day, once we have been enjoying the sport, it was simply extremely enjoyable simply as builders to play and luxuriate in your sport, which is type of uncommon since you normally get sick of a sport that you just’ve been enjoying for years. However we did get pleasure from it.
TA: I hold hoping each few months that there will probably be some new DLC or one thing which is able to give me an excuse to replay it. Since launch, there have been some notable updates with sport modes, fixes, and there have been three paid beauty DLC packs. There’s been an Amazon Prime DLC factor as nicely.
At this level, I requested John if there have been plans for an replace to have a good time the primary anniversary of the sport. He mentioned the workforce is taking a look at participant suggestions however can’t announce something. I then requested how the workforce felt concerning the unanimously constructive suggestions to the sport from launch.
JJ: It was just a little bit bizarre, as a result of we’re used to seeing a very good mixture of, you realize, constructive suggestions, simply normal adverse suggestions. Folks simply don’t like the sport, or numerous issues they need improved. But it surely felt so weird to us as a result of our growth was a lot achieved in the dead of night that nobody knew about this sport. There wasn’t any form of preview cycle. So it was popping out, and we have been questioning concerning the stuff we put in, and whether or not gamers have been going to love it or not. And such as you mentioned, this form of virtually unanimously constructive response, virtually caught us off guard in a means as a result of we thought, we now have the stuff that we wished them to say. Everybody appears to be saying. The form of positivity across the sport typically, these are all like bullet factors on our preliminary draft of once we’re pitching the sport. We wished individuals to say this and it was our objective for the sport, and other people have been simply saying that. It’s virtually like we’re trying by way of the feedback for something that would give us assist to determine what we do improper? And many of the negativity that we did see was actually like “this sport simply isn’t for me, however I can inform it’s very nicely made, very nicely crafted. It’s simply not for me.” And we’re like, that’s effective.
It’s refreshing from a sport developer perspective to have that positivity, and never be at all times considering like oh we should always have achieved this. So there’s not numerous remorse, and extra simply type of pleasure that comes from that.
TA: Once I was enjoying the sport, the one criticisms I noticed was not even that, however simply individuals who don’t like or aren’t good at rhythm video games not having fun with or having the ability to play it. However then I feel the accessibility stuff improved fairly a bit with parry by way of the updates. So even individuals who don’t like these issues now can simply play it like an motion sport. I’m questioning how that’s out of your perspective while you see this sport designed in a particular means. Do you assume the accessibility choices for rhythm gameplay lessens the general influence since some gained’t get the total expertise with all of the mechanics?
JJ: I feel with accessibility stuff like that, if the tip objective is that somebody simply enjoys the sport as a result of it’s there, I don’t assume it’s our place to say that that’s an inherently improper method to expertise the sport. I feel that we designed a sport round that there’s a means that we intend you to play it, but when there’s a means that lets you play it in a means which may be simpler, like like once more, possibly there’s somebody who’s simply not rhythmically inclined and has problem with just like the parrying sections. We thought that we have been type of doing our greatest. We did numerous type of behind the scenes work to form of cowl for individuals who possibly have problem with it. However trying on the suggestions, we added within the form of auto parry system, so basically it removes all problem from let’s say just like the Korsica boss battle for instance.
In order that was one thing that internally once we have been first going by way of it, we’re like, nicely, you realize, this can be a check we would like you to type of expertise this as a result of for those who can simply glide by way of it then the following sections you’re going to get caught up on it. However then we realized that if somebody’s, that is legitimately stopping somebody from having fun with the sport, then it’s an possibility you could activate. We’ve got no situation with that. We did design it with numerous accessibility in thoughts. Although it’s an audio sport, every part has the visible aspect in a way. The concept was that even when somebody who’s arduous of listening to was enjoying the sport, they might immediately play as a result of there’s a visible facet to every part as nicely. We’re very form of proactive in ensuring that it was accessible to individuals who want accessibility issues, but additionally from only a normal sport perspective you may perceive learn how to play the sport. It wasn’t too tough, however for those who wished it to be tough, you may elevate the issue as excessive as you may. So we have been very aware about that.
Lots of people are very form of protecting over issues like that is the meant means a sport ought to be performed. However while you’re simply making an attempt to make a sport that’s about having enjoyable, you don’t need to make something that would forestall individuals from having fun with it.
TA: So Hello-Fi Rush runs at 1440p 60fps on Xbox Sequence S and 4K 60fps on the Xbox Sequence X. I performed it on the latter and on Steam Deck the place it seems to be and runs superb. I wished to know if the workforce thought of a 120fps mode on Xbox consoles.
JJ: I feel there was a short second the place we spoke about it. So the problem typically, the explanation why we focused 60fps, I feel individuals have that type of false impression when they consider body fee stuff. It’s like while you goal to hit a body fee, it’s not one thing that simply the programmers do. It’s one thing that the whole workforce has to work on. They should work on all of the property within the sport to make it possible for they’re made in order that they run at a sure spec. We have been at some extent like early on the place we have been type of determining what we would want to do to make it run at 120fps, and if we wished it to do this, it must be stable for us. If it isn’t, what occurs is audio desync happens which might have an effect on the gameplay expertise.
We type of noticed what we have to do to possibly cut back constancy to get it to run at 120fps. It wasn’t only for instance, simply reducing the decision. It might be like turning off numerous shaders, like altering the graph, just like the polygon counts on a number of issues. A whole lot of work to do this, and we weren’t certain that it will hit 120fps stable the entire sport as nicely. So that may be an unimaginable quantity of labor to hit that. I feel it will be nice to have, however from a restricted dev facet we wanted to form of like draw the road and for us 60fps was a really clear objective that was achievable.
PC customers can’t truly go up that top. So we do this. However once we’re coping with numerous system specs, we wished to make sure that we obtained the expertise that we wished out of that console.
TA: Once I performed it, one other factor I seen is that the sport has an excellent rumble on the Xbox controller. I wished to know if the workforce thought of implementing PlayStation DualSense performance within the PC. I believed a sport like Hello-Fi Rush would dramatically profit from haptic suggestions on that controller on PC.
JJ: I do know we didn’t contemplate once we have been making it solely as a result of I do know that there are many points typically with ensuring that controller assist is engaged on Steam. Principally with how we’re creating with form of principally this possibly Xbox first mindset in that sense, we have been taking a look at ensuring that it labored with that controller set, I truly don’t know. This may be a greater reply for the programmers. I don’t know what device set is required to make it run okay on PC with the haptics with, however I do know that it particularly didn’t come up.
TA: Okay now let’s discuss Hello-Fi Rush merchandise. When are we getting Korsica merchandise?
JJ: Nicely the merchandise stuff isn’t as much as us as builders. We’ve got an incredible licensing workforce at Bethesda who works on stuff they usually type of take a look at what individuals need. So I feel if there’s sure stuff you need to see, be sure to’re telling Bethesda what you assume is nice. Clearly we’d like to have cool merchandise for all of the characters and we’d like to have all this. However yeah, you may inform me. In fact, I’m in your aspect. I need tons of cool stuff.
TA: Once I performed the sport in January, I hoped to see a vinyl soundtrack and a bodily launch. The previous occurred. Is there any information on the latter?
JJ: I don’t have any information for you. I do assume the bodily launch is one thing typically that we all know that there’s an enormous demand for. I can clearly see that there’s identical to normal traits the place some video games at the moment are simply getting digital solely releases like that. We’re at all times open to the thought of possibly or possibly doing one thing like that if the chance arises.
TA: I additionally wished to know if there have been or are plans for an artbook as a result of the artwork within the sport is superb.
JJ: It’s not as straightforward as simply making an artwork guide for these items. It’s lots like licensing and issues like that. Clearly the workforce loves the artwork, and you realize they did an incredible job of creating a compilation of all of the fashions, and never every part, however as a result of we now have an insane quantity of authentic artwork for this sport. Every particular person artist put up on their ArtStation profile on-line, which is nice to see a very good scope of that. Having it in a bodily type like that I feel can be nice. I do know we did it for the primary Evil Inside. We had an artwork guide that’s actually cool and I feel the colours, simply the artwork on this sport is unimaginable. So once more, one thing we’d like to discover if the chance rises for this sport as nicely.
TA: There has clearly been a ton of fan artwork and numerous actually good things. One in all my favourite items of fan artwork for the sport is definitely from a pal of mine, and I feel you replied to them on Twitter about Futurama and its affect.
Alright. It is Saturday evening. I’ve no date. A two liter bottle of Shasta, and my all Rush combine tape. Let’s rock. #HiFiRush pic.twitter.com/JIKjgCykLb
— Virtua Sanus (@SegaUranus) February 5, 2023
JJ: I do bear in mind this. I believed that is nice for a number of causes. A, simply because it’s like it’s only a good piece of artwork. But in addition as a result of you realize, Futurama itself was like an enormous affect on the sport, like the texture and the vibe. Particularly once I was pitching the thought of Chai, individuals have been saying like you may’t have this character, this principal character who’s not sensible and isn’t like a hero. I take advantage of Futurama for example of like, take a look at Fry. He’s positively not the neatest individual on this group, and possibly he does some intelligent stuff generally, however he type of like falls into it, and and so I had had lots of people on the workforce watch that present to allow them to get just like the the understanding of this form of like really feel that we’re going ahead.
So to see individuals decide up on that, and be like hey this is sort of a Fry-type character, and I used to be like yeah that’s precisely how I introduced as much as the workforce has talked about it. I feel that form of that form of bizarre form of like loser you realize hero factor, possibly is was just a little little bit of a cultural factor the place I feel me rising up watching reveals like that, you see the little bit extra and possibly American tradition, and Japanese tradition particularly with video games they attempt to push for heroes like very very sturdy character with few flaws, however like you realize possibly darkish previous, you realize is it’s the one factor. However I used to be like no, he’s identical to a goofball. So it’s gonna be enjoyable.
TA: I can’t consider we’ve spoken for nearly half an hour and I haven’t even introduced up the superlative music in Hello-Fi Rush. How essential was it so that you can get the licensed music that ended up within the ultimate sport?
JJ: Whereas I wouldn’t say it was an absolute necessity in attaining the sport’s targets, there’s simply one thing so satisfying about listening to a licensed monitor are available in and land completely with a scene. With the idea early on being based mostly on the sport feeling like “a music video being edited round you,” having licensed music, typically, allow us to make that idea extra literal. It additionally lets us mess around with gameplay since as a substitute of the tracks evolving round YOUR playstyle, it lets us set you as much as form of play in opposition to the monitor.
As for the tune selections, I simply felt that they’d convey the vibe and gameplay conditions appropriately, so I fought arduous on pursuing them and I’m so comfortable we have been ready to make use of the tracks that we did. Some preliminary music selections had points (and in the best way we had to make use of the songs, there have been A LOT of ways in which would make the tune both not authorized or not ready for use), however I feel each licensed tune alternative we used within the sport we made certain it counted so it didn’t simply really feel like background music.
TA: The unique rating for the sport is Bethesda’s finest ever throughout its lengthy historical past and franchises. How was it engaged on the soundtrack and lyrics?
JJ: Whereas I completely love our authentic soundtrack, that’s fairly a press release to name it Bethesda’s finest ever (and a harmful one to say out loud, so watch out laughs). My direct contributions to the soundtrack have been actually minimal (simply the vocals on 3 songs), however I labored with the sound workforce to curate the sound types for the phases to make sure a artistic consistency with the temper of the sport, the eventual segways into the licensed music, and the way they’d work with the story beats. It was extra like a producer function which continues to be giving me an excessive amount of credit score, for my part. Nonetheless, after giving steerage, listening to the demos after which evolving them into the model within the sport, from Shuichi Kobori, Mastoshi Yanagi, and Reo Uratani for the in-game tracks, was an incredible expertise. I might hear the demos which might get myself and the workforce excited concerning the part we have been designing after which when it was working in-game, it actually would carry these sections of the sport to life. And on the finish of manufacturing is when the sound workforce would go the additional mile and add in all these neat thrives and transitional components to make every stage simply really feel so superb and enjoyable; it was simply stacking these good vibes on one after one other. All of them did such an incredible job.
Hilariously, the lyrical sections have been actually one of many final issues we did and even the ending tune began as a goof of me joking concerning the sport when listening to the completed instrumental within the studio. We laughed, so then determined to take a vocal model of it. It wound up being a bit extra honest than the unique “joke monitor” however I feel it bookends the expertise completely.
TA: In the event you might make a Hello-Fi Rush 2, would it not be about Korsica and what bands would you want featured?
JJ: Hello-Fi Rush deliberately ends in a means that’s virtually conclusive but additionally looks like a pilot of a TV present in a “the place can we go from right here?” really feel. So, on this theoretical magical world the place you recommend the collection continues on…I don’t actually assume something is ready in stone on what might occur, however simply as the unique sport was such a shock, I wouldn’t need to get anybody enthusiastic about what would possibly or would possibly NOT occur, you realize?
TA: What are you at the moment enjoying, and what are your favourite video games of 2023?
JJ: I performed Spider-Man 2 and that was incredible. I’m at the moment enjoying by way of Alan Wake 2, which can also be incredible. There are such a lot of incredible video games this 12 months that it’s prefer it’s arduous to maintain up with them. These have been the 2 current ones. I simply needed to leap in and play, as a result of they hit precisely the kind of factor I used to be in search of.
I’d wish to thank John Johanas, Elizabeth Gabriel, Adam Simon, and James Morton for his or her assist and time throughout this interview.
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